OVER THE EDGE January 36, 2008 Interview with Diana Youdell Special Advisor to the Director General Afghanistan Task Force ANDREW KURJATA FEATURES AND Opinions Eprror Diana Youdell has just returned from over a year working in Afghanistan as the Head of Development Programs for CIDA. Now she is working with the Department of Foreign Affairs, and is embarking on a cross-Canada tour explaining her views of Canada’s role in Afghanistan. In her talk, entitled “Canada: Making a Difference in Afghanistan,” she highlights the more positive side of Canada’s involvement, especially when it comes to de- velopment, education, and women’s rights. She sat down with Andrew Kurjata to share some of her thoughts on the role of the mil- itary in development, media biases, and wintertime in Kabul. I know you have a master’s in Education Administration. So how do you go from that to democracy building in Afghanistan? Good question. I did a master’s in Education Administration with the University of Mani- toba. It was actually the week my diploma was delivered that I was asked to go to Sudan to work with Carleton Polytech. I worked with the community colleges in Manitoba, and the community colleges were working with Carleton Polytech. That was my first inter- national assignment, and it almost scared me out of ever doing it again because it was Oc- tober of ‘89-- just after the coup in Sudan. But I went anyway, and I learned a lot. I probably learned more than the staff of Carleton Poly- technic did. We were working on developing curriculum and changing an academic-based curriculum to competency-based curriculum. This was the late ‘80’s. So that was my first trip out, and I became increasingly interested in doing international work, so it was shortly after that-- ‘91-- that a colleague from the University of Manitoba was asked if she knew anyone who would be qualified to go to Pakistan, in Baluchistan, a north-frontier province, to set up vocational training institutions for women. So in Janu- ary of ‘92 I took leave of absence from Mani- toba’s Department of Education and I went to Baluchistan for two years, and I stayed actually for three years. I worked within the Department of Labour, and I travelled all the provinces of Pakistan because we had work in every province. So we were setting up what we’re called women’s technical training insti- tutes, and we were also helping develop the employment offices for women. It’s a very hostile environment for women who want to work at the lower levels, so it was a huge learning experience for me. It was actually that experience that prepared me for my last year. I came back from Pakistan and went to work for the Department of Education in their apprenticeship branch to be responsible for exams and curriculum. I worked there for quite a short period of time, because I was asked to go back to Pakistan by the Asian De- velopment Bank, so I went back, and then I came back, and es- sentially ended up deciding that I would move to Ot- tawa, I hoped with CIDA, and work internationally full- time. I was very lucky because a month later I had a job. And you started as a Desk Officer? Yes. It’s called a Senior Develop- ment Officer, and you manage pro- jects in that country. I managed projects in Sri Lanka, Nepal, { India. Its one office that = looks after all of = those regions? Yes. Are you still in contact with people in Pakistan with what's going on there now? Yes, of course. I worked there for a long time, so I know people, I have friends there, and during my time in Afghanistan, of course, I was in touch with my friends in Pakistan. It was appropriate for me to go to Afghanistan because I had the regional experience which, actually, very few people do. Are there a fair amount of similarities be- tween the two countries? Some. But differences, too. Pakistan, of course, has not been at war constantly for the last thirty years, so it’s in much better shape. So I guess deciding that you were going to Afghanistan wasnt such a surprise after all this? Well, if you know me, not. I was working as Head of Aid in South Africa, I was there for five years, and I applied for the job in Afghanistan. Contrary to what many people think we’re not just given these jobs, we have to compete. So I applied for the job, and I found out in April of 2006 that I actually had the job. As my husband said, “Be careful what you wish for, because you may get it, and you may live to regret it.” But, actually, 1 didn’t ever regret going to Afghanistan. What were living conditions like for you? Canadians in the embassy in Kabul is an unaccompanied post, so you can’t take fam- ily with you. You’re given one room and it’s communal eating. One kitchen prepares all the food and everybody eats there. It’s very basic, is how I describe it. And that’s being kind. So what do you pack? I wore normal Western clothes when I was there because I was working out of the em- bassy, and it wouldn’t have been appropriate to dress in the local garb. What I didn’t know was how cold it gets in Kabul, and I didn’t take a lot of winter clothes. And it was very cold and it snowed and it was horrible. Talking about being in Kabul, al- though it sounds fa exotic, it’s not. The ; people who work ' in Kandahar have far more facili- © ties because it’s a = Canadian military =. base. We are fairly © basic. The houses ; are fairly clean but, = you know, the elec- tricity goes out oc- © casionally and the = pipes for the water = are on the outside of the house, not the inside, so the water freezes. So it’s quite harsh, Did you have any contact with soldiers on the ground, or are you separate from them? When I was there, there were ten military se- curity people. That was for the ambassador’s security, though, not for the staff. I would have contact for the ISAF (eds note: International Security Assistance Force), but in my particu- lar role I didn’t see much of them. I did several times have to go down to the Kandahar air base. The military people are on ten acres, it’s a huge base. When we lose Can- adians, that’s where ramp ceremonies are and a senior person from the embassy always goes there to attend ramp services, so I was there maybe six times. What about entertainment? Work. Work. What about you're friends and family. I guess maybe they’re used to you going off by now? No, actually, my husband was with me in South Africa, and my kids are used to visit- ing me everywhere. They can’t go to Afghan- istan, there’s no family visits or anything, so I went home a couple of times. I went in March to plant my plants for my garden. Are you planning on going to Afghanistan after this tour? No, my position was for a year and I stayed thirteen months, so I actually went over my time. I’m exhausted, so I don’t think I should go back. The Afghanistan time is eight hours ahead, so you work you’re eight hours and then the Canadian system opens up, so you work another six hours. And Friday is your day of rest in Afghanistan, but in Canada it isn’t. Then the Afghan office is open on Sat- urday. So you work seven days and it’s seven days, so people get very burnt out. As I understand, this tour is the first exten- sive talk on what CIDA is doing in Afghan- istan in a couple of years... I don’t know. When I came back from Af- ghanistan, I was moved over to the Depart- ment of Foreign Affairs to be a special advisor to the people over there. We like to talk about the Canadian program in Afghanistan, so the idea is that the departments will share resour- ces. A person just coming back, who is full of current information-- I think the sense is that they want people to hear about anyone’s experience who has been to Afghanistan be- cause so few people have been. An opportun- ity for people to ask questions and hear real answers because I was there, I do know how we’re doing, and a lot of it’s very successful. It’s titled “Canada: Making A Difference in Afghanistan” and some of the statements I’ve seen, and it seems youre delivering a more Positive message than Canadians are used to hearing with some of the debates going on. Do you feel like you're changing some minds? I'll tell you people are very interested, and people listen very intently, and they ask very intelligent questions. I think they’re welcom- ing the information and they see it as very positive that somebody that just got back is willing to come back and talk to them about what is really happening. I feel it would be a bit presumptuous of me to say that I’m influ- encing people, but hopefully I’m giving them food for thought, you know, I’m giving people information that they can then use. Its true what you say that most Canadians dont actually visit Afghanistan to see how things are going. And there are obviously dif- fering stories coming out-- for example, the Senlis Council saying Canada should pull out of Afghanistan and there being some trouble-- maybe not trouble, but differing opinions, be- tween this think-tank and CIDA. So why are there such different ideas from people on the ground? The government opinion on Senlis is that we just don’t agree with their data. Their re- ports, for example, on the Mirwais Hospital in Kandahar. We have been working with the International Committee of the Red Cross and UNICEF to work on this hospital, and the International Committee of the Red Cross have been active in the health sector of Af- ghanistan for years and years. Now, the health sector is very poorly off, they don’t have real- ly great facilities, they don’t have the best of everything but, the thing is, it’s improving. We think it’s not productive to report negatively when we’re actually doing so much work, and it is changing. So the government’s statement is that we simply don’t agree with the Senlis opinion on what’s happening-- it’s an opinion because it’s not based on facts. So when I tell you we’re working with ICRC and giving $3 million to develop the health structures in Afghanistan, particularly the Mirwais Hospital and work in the south, you actually have to go there and see it. And our staff is there all the time. We feel they’re data is opinion rather than fact, and they do not have an extensive network of people in Afghanistan. “The news media are totally captivated with the military might-- the tanks and the coffins are far more sensational than anything I can drum up with a new school or kids getting education. They've told me quite bluntly, “What you do is not very sexy so we don't report it.”